The April Fools Contest is now open for Reading and Voting. Have Fun!
Hide
Home Β» Forum Β» Story Discussion and Feedback

Forum: Story Discussion and Feedback

Dancing & Fires

NC-Retired 🚫

Massive communal fires. Chants. Percussion. Foot stomping in rhythm. Flutes. Rites. Ceremonies.

Why, why and why are these social elements missing from so many alternate history, extraordinary conditions needed to travel to a different dimension and/or a more primitive society sorta tales?

Many different discussion threads have touched on how authors can enhance their tales by describing the background, both physical descriptions and as the perceptions of their surrounding society from the main characters POV.

I'm perplexed as to why authors of alternate reality tales do not include these sorts of social interactions to enrich their imagined societies.

What are your thoughts or ideas?

Curious minds and all that…

CB 🚫

@NC-Retired

My "Make the cut" future included a few beach raves. That count?

garymrssn 🚫

@NC-Retired

"The world is so full of a number of things, I'm sure we should all be as happy as kings."
Robert Louis Stevenson

However sometimes those things somehow fall through the cracks of life.

Your post reminded me of this verse which reminded me of the best author to take my mind away from the tribulations of old age. I'll have to reread Treasure Island to be sure. It may even have some of the fire, dancing or drums you are looking for.(But no sex) ;)
Now I'm off to do some real escapism.

Thank You

Gary

Grey Wolf 🚫

@NC-Retired

So far, I haven't gotten to a situation where most of those happen. On the other hand, church is 'rites and ceremonies' and there's a lot of church-going, if not described in a lot of detail. Concerts have chants and foot-stomping, and I've got a bit of that.

It's a good point, and - sooner or later - I'll probably get there.

I do have a large number of people marching around an enormous bonfire, then setting it ablaze, so maybe that counts?

Paladin_HGWT 🚫

@NC-Retired

Massive communal fires. Chants. Percussion. Foot stomping in rhythm. Flutes. Rites. Ceremonies.

Why, why and why are these social elements missing from so many alternate history, extraordinary conditions needed to travel to a different dimension and/or a more primitive society sorta tales?

Possibly there is an element of "White Guilt" because there has been a lot of criticism about White authors including such things in books and movies. Despite such activities being common in Celtic, Germanic, and Norse societies.

From high school in the 1980's, and more so in college/universities in the 1990's, and prominent post 2010 when I began taking courses again.

The last two movies I remember such scenes were Gladiator, and The 13th Warrior.

I believe I recall communal fires and dancing in several such stories; rituals in several more stories.

In my opinion, such scenes are rare because in most of the stories you are talking about, the writer depicts very few indigenous people. Rarely more than a family group, or a tribe of 50 people or less.

Most stories (on SoL) seem to be more "Man vs. Environment" or set in a later era, such as Rome, or the Middle Ages.

When I write, I often include bits about food and beverages, or the scenery.

Your suggestions have merit. Just a small scene or two, could add some depth to a story.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son 🚫
Updated:

@Paladin_HGWT

@NC-Retired

Massive communal fires. Chants. Percussion. Foot stomping in rhythm. Flutes. Rites. Ceremonies.

Why, why and why are these social elements missing from so many alternate history, extraordinary conditions needed to travel to a different dimension and/or a more primitive society sorta tales?

Possibly there is an element of "White Guilt" because there has been a lot of criticism about White authors including such things in books and movies. Despite such activities being common in Celtic, Germanic, and Norse societies.

Another problem may be finding accurate information on chants, rites, and ceremonies for ancient religions, or even for indigenous peoples whose history prior to encountering Europeans is mostly or entirely oral.

solreader50 🚫

@Dominions Son

for indigenous peoples whose history prior to encountering Europeans is mostly or entirely oral.

And oft times entirely fictional depending on what the good Jesuit brothers wanted us to hear.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son 🚫

@solreader50

And oft times entirely fictional depending on what the good Jesuit brothers wanted us to hear.

You missed my point. A written record of the relevant practices is far more often simply non-existent.

Replies:   Paladin_HGWT
Paladin_HGWT 🚫

@Dominions Son

Yup. There is a lack of historical records.

Or, as you mentioned, the information may be deliberately skewed. In the book about the Gauls by Gaius Julius Ceasar, he depicted the Gauls to be less civilized than they were.

Much of the 19th century writing about Celtics, and in particular "Druids" and "Witches" is more Fantasy than historical research!

Over the last few decades, in universities and writing, White people who depicted ceremonies, dancing, etc. Even of Celtics, Norse, or others, including Fictional peoples, may be accused of "cultural appropriation"...

In the series The Vikings, there were accusations that how some female characters wore their hair, and some of the jewelry and other adornments, was "cultural appropriation" despite historical artifacts, and "bog mummies" and other research that informed the fictional depictions.

Unfortunately, some Grifters (of various ethnic/racial backgrounds) Profit from making such accusations! Such drama leads to cautions ⚠️ at writers' conferences, and college courses. πŸ™„

I don't know if that has deterred any writers on SoL. I consider some of the crap that is part of writing courses (or history courses) I have taken. I would probably add ceremonies and other things that someone might accuse me of "cultural appropriation" but it is possible that I, and other writers might, even subconsciously, omit to avoid potential hassles.

Vincent Berg 🚫

@Dominions Son

Actually, rather than 'white guilt', I've always felt it was due to the authors themselves realizing how much they relied on those 'savage' story tropes, as they were mostly written by British Imperialists, who'd often drag those cultures into the 'modern age', often while the natures where openly resisting and largely being entirely wiped out, with only a few survivors writing about what 'they'd gained' from being forced toβ€”again, purely to survive in the dominant culture.

Thus, it was mostly an admission of their own, openly racist past associations. Yet, those same feelings are now being openly championed (at least here in the U.S.A), so it seems everything is up for grabs, as all standards are now being openly challenged.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son 🚫

@Vincent Berg

Actually, rather than 'white guilt',

I wasn't pushing the 'white guilt' angle, that was a quote from someone else. My comment was on the difficulty of getting accurate information on such practices.

Paladin_HGWT 🚫
Updated:

@NC-Retired

Not quite what you are talking about. However, in the movie Red Dawn, they had a "ceremony" drinking the fresh blood of a deer they had killed. It was more of a family tradition, but "based" upon (some nebulous) tribal traditions"... Teens in a perilous situation, to me it felt realistic. Similar to various "military traditions" (and hazing); activities that might have a historical basis; but are often Pseudo historical at best.

Various scenes in The Lord of the Flies, depict some of what you are suggesting. Albeit in a disturbing manner. But it is "modern" characters performing primitive ceremonies and such.

LupusDei 🚫
Updated:

@NC-Retired

My guess would be much simpler, especially where amateur authors are considering. People simply haven't experienced any much such, or doesn't associate modern practices with those roots, so it falls off the radar, and isn't mentioned. Not intentionally omitted, but not being part of the author's mental image at all.

Replies:   Vincent Berg
Vincent Berg 🚫

@LupusDei

Historically, other than supposed Bacchanal orgies, such stories were rarely sexual in nature, as it's more of a racial stereotype of how 'heathens' supposed behaved without the 'civilizing' influence of the Holy Roman church. Then, in later years, once writers gained additional creative freedoms, it was simply no longer needed, by and large.

Though there are always exceptions to every 'rule'. But as noted, I've participated in a few campfires in my more wanton youth where we'd dance naked over fires, both bonfires on the beachfront (where we'd dance around them) or small campfires where we'd also leap over them. Though in neither case, was there any nudity or actual sexual activity, as ever reports would likely have involved an official police investigation. As opposed to the more common Streaking movement or running through parks or public events would largely get you chastised, yet rarely involved any serious repercussions. Alas, it was a different age, and simpler times.

Replies:   Paladin_HGWT  LupusDei
Paladin_HGWT 🚫

@Vincent Berg

I've participated in a few campfires in my more wanton youth where we'd dance naked over fires, both bonfires on the beachfront (where we'd dance around them) or small campfires where we'd also leap over them.

In my youth I participated in camp outs at Camp Long, part of the Seattle Parks Department, and built by the CCC in the 1930's. Or events connected run by the CYO (Catholic Youth Organization), or the Boy Scouts. We would build the fire πŸ”₯ sing songs, or chants, some from the Salish culture (local tribes), or other backgrounds. Perhaps stories would be told. The adult supervision wouldn't allow us to jump over the fires, nor get naked...

Nowadays such things are frowned upon because they are "dangerous, polluting, and cultural appropriation!" Odd, because members of my family did similar things on Alki Beach back in the 1870's, although some who were there commented that they didn't understand what Uncle Ollie meant "celebrating our Viking traditions." (They were in their late 80's or early 90's when I was a child. Their statements were echoed in a book written by a family member in the late 1940's, making me wish I had asked more questions back the.)

Our family did have some bonfires, and a bit of singing; more Storytelling.

LupusDei 🚫
Updated:

@Vincent Berg

I'm a Latvian. We are keepers of a little know quasi-religious borderline matriarchal worldview that long ago may have been popular throughout much of central Europe, from northern Italy to nearly Urals, among settled peasants -- as opposed to nomadic or semi-nomadic horse pastors who often overran parts of the same lands but do represent very different cultures.

After such an introduction, back to bonfires and naked dancing. There's the Midsummers Night. A short, but intense festivities, and the supposed New Year's day... maybe. Short, for Summer Solstice being in an extremely busy part of the year for most peasants, and, where I live, that shortest night is really as short as only six hours sunset to dawn, and yes, it only barely gets dark as you can see Sun's glow in the clouds coming from due north, She's being just barely under the horizon...

...so it may seem to be extremely lazy to declare a religious need to maintain a bonfire sunset to dawn this exact night. Night that is, somehow, for all intends and purposes magical, and exempt from normal rules.

Including, supposedly, temporary abolishing any marriage vows (in some arguably overly extreme interpretations, any relationship guidelines whatsoever, so according to those even incest is allowed), as the song says, "Midsummer night [I] couldn't determine who was wife who was daughter, all they wore flower crowns." (Flower crown is somewhat synonymous with virginity, while wife and daughter are two words that together inclusively describe any female who isn't [your] mother ("wife" = someone's wife, any adult female; "daughter" = a girl, any unmarried woman, but also maid and sometimes whore)).

So, yes, it's a night of free love, in search of the mystical Ferns Flower that only booms this one night and could only be seen by couples (no, ferns don't bloom in the sense we usually interpret flowers, if you need a botanical reminder). As the song has it, "who falls asleep the Midsummer night, [is a lazy ass who] will sleep the whole summer." More carefully reading it, it's not hard to determine it's about sleeping *alone* not necessarily about sleep as such. Indeed, it turns out, it's borderline shameful NOT to have sex Midsummers night... yet, that's not something ever said aloud in direct words, but it's implied.

What's said, "Girls who want to be beautiful must batch in morning dew at sunrise," (naked of course, as most of magic requires, especially female magic (I think it's both for a titillating factor in the magic formulas as well as an added barrier, and also, especially in cases like this, facilitate the observable effect on, well, observers)).

That's theory. And I would include any forms of jumping over the bonfire, naked or not, in mostly pure theory as well, although there's surely someone who has done just that, possibly even last year, or at least has a friend who claims knowing someone who did. For one, the average Midsummer night bonfire is way too big to jump over. And speaking about lost traditional ways, there's a traditional way to have the Midsummers fire in a barrel on top of a long pole, referred to by a world meaning "dick" for those who knows, and setting it up was a major collective affair, so yes, "raising the dick" was one of the opening activities for the night.

Actual modern world practices vary, but outside of wild legends are usually much more tame. Although official naked runs are part of modern tradition in several places, but the actual participants are almost exclusively men. Skinny dipping at night or at dawn was still quite popular "secret" part of the festivities as recently as late last century.

Some dancing is borderline a must, still. Large outdoor concerts are commonplace.

Paladin_HGWT 🚫

@NC-Retired

Various Tribal Warrior Societies in the USA and Canada have had ceremonies with bonfires, and other elements for members of the armed forces returning from deployments.

I don't know if that happened after either world War, however, some did occur in the later stages of the war in Vietnam, and after.

It has become more common after Desert Storm, and particularly after the conflicts in Afghanistan, Iraq, and elsewhere.

(Although Canada did not participate in the Vietnam conflict, nor send soldiers to Iraq. Tens of thousands of Canadians have served in the US armed forces in those conflicts. In particular members of the First Nations.)

These types of ceremonies have proven to be beneficial for the mental health of veterans.

Back to Top

 

WARNING! ADULT CONTENT...

Storiesonline is for adult entertainment only. By accessing this site you declare that you are of legal age and that you agree with our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy.


Log In